Creation Vs Evolution

amaterasu wrote:

Aichu wrote:

amaterasu wrote:

Aichu wrote:Woah...never expected ama to be the one to revive this o.o

God created the world in six twenty-four hour periods. That's all I'm going to say.

but

there is a problem with that


God doesn't live in time

also history suggests that the earth was mae over 6 billion years or what not

6 days to him could be 6 billion years to us.

we have no way of telling how long his "day" is

Sure there is. You only need to look at it as a constant mesurement. It says six days for creation, and days is later on used in the bible to gauge a span of time close to our 24 hr definition (otherwise noah would have been out at sea for a really long time, lol).

Now, if you were to bring up 'but it never says god creates time in the bible', then we have a BIG mess on our hands, as that would mean we still have no such thing as time

And there is evidence of a young world, it all depends on who you ask. Also, if we believe events in the bible are historic, and since the bible is the word of God, it cannot contradict itself (save for translation errors and transmission errors that pop up as rarely as they do, but the message itself cannot be contradicted) by saying 'yeah, this event is true but this one is totaly balogne'.

but he said to noah i'll flood the earth for 40 days and nights

in the biginning he was only to himself, so it doesn't have to be the same time measurements and thus your theory is flawed
while God does not contradict history, why are there fossils of animals dating back to tens of thousands of years?

Our history started roughly 3500 years before Christ was born

The bible events start somewhere at 4000 or 8000 years (can't remember which)
before christ

Endless Nothing wrote:

Aichu wrote: And there is evidence of a young world, it all depends on who you ask. Also, if we believe events in the bible are historic, and since the bible is the word of God, it cannot contradict itself (save for translation errors and transmission errors that pop up as rarely as they do, but the message itself cannot be contradicted) by saying 'yeah, this event is true but this one is totaly balogne'.

Hate to burst your bubble. God created time itself yes, but the means by which we measure it was created by man and thus it is possible that God's day and our day differ.

amaterasu wrote: well God created all animals from his own thoughts
so they do have a connection there

but i don't see how something like this

Spoiler:

a fish which wasn't discovered until sometime in the 1900's could have passed on its genes to adapt to its surrounding

if it was a normal fish, it would have just swam to the surface
and yet it lives in the darkest part of the ocean with no light, it doesn't appear to have adapted, and if Darwin's theory was correct, it would have to apply to all animals.

Aichu wrote:

amaterasu wrote:

Aichu wrote:

amaterasu wrote:

Aichu wrote:Woah...never expected ama to be the one to revive this o.o

God created the world in six twenty-four hour periods. That's all I'm going to say.

but

there is a problem with that


God doesn't live in time

also history suggests that the earth was mae over 6 billion years or what not

6 days to him could be 6 billion years to us.

we have no way of telling how long his "day" is

Sure there is. You only need to look at it as a constant mesurement. It says six days for creation, and days is later on used in the bible to gauge a span of time close to our 24 hr definition (otherwise noah would have been out at sea for a really long time, lol).

Now, if you were to bring up 'but it never says god creates time in the bible', then we have a BIG mess on our hands, as that would mean we still have no such thing as time

And there is evidence of a young world, it all depends on who you ask. Also, if we believe events in the bible are historic, and since the bible is the word of God, it cannot contradict itself (save for translation errors and transmission errors that pop up as rarely as they do, but the message itself cannot be contradicted) by saying 'yeah, this event is true but this one is totaly balogne'.

but he said to noah i'll flood the earth for 40 days and nights

in the biginning he was only to himself, so it doesn't have to be the same time measurements and thus your theory is flawed
while God does not contradict history, why are there fossils of animals dating back to tens of thousands of years?

Our history started roughly 3500 years before Christ was born

The bible events start somewhere at 4000 or 8000 years (can't remember which)
before christ

But the messurements are recorded from the perspective of the writer. If that were true, the the author would have written something along the lines of six billion years.

And, if adam and even were created on the sixth day and god rested on the seventh, then what were they doing all those thousands of years up until the events of genesis begin?

Aichu wrote:
Yes, but show me a passage in the bible that gives a reason why six days can't be measured by man's standard?

Endless Nothing wrote:

amaterasu wrote: well God created all animals from his own thoughts
so they do have a connection there

but i don't see how something like this

Spoiler:

a fish which wasn't discovered until sometime in the 1900's could have passed on its genes to adapt to its surrounding

if it was a normal fish, it would have just swam to the surface
and yet it lives in the darkest part of the ocean with no light, it doesn't appear to have adapted, and if Darwin's theory was correct, it would have to apply to all animals.

I can not see the picture but gathering from what you have said, you have a good point.

Who is to say however, that the fish isn't merely one of the species that will soon cease to exist for its lack of the ability to adapt as the other types of fish have done so well?
If i had to take a guess i'd say that there aren't many of those fish left to be found are there?

amaterasu wrote:
But God told the man what to write, which he did with the rest of the bible
we tell time by the sun and the earth rotating around it

God doesn't
also a day could have meant something else back then
remember the bible was originally in hebrew

also ove rthe years that God rested on teh 'seventh' day, a lot of things happened, humans discovered fire adn the wheel and all the other inventions and what not, they became sedentary and learned agriculture

remember history class aichu

think back to a time of school and Mme. Levesque and french!

Endless Nothing wrote:

Aichu wrote:
Yes, but show me a passage in the bible that gives a reason why six days can't be measured by man's standard?

I could ask the same to prove that it can.
And the outcome would be the same.

amaterasu wrote:

Endless Nothing wrote:

amaterasu wrote: well God created all animals from his own thoughts
so they do have a connection there

but i don't see how something like this

Spoiler:

a fish which wasn't discovered until sometime in the 1900's could have passed on its genes to adapt to its surrounding

if it was a normal fish, it would have just swam to the surface
and yet it lives in the darkest part of the ocean with no light, it doesn't appear to have adapted, and if Darwin's theory was correct, it would have to apply to all animals.

I can not see the picture but gathering from what you have said, you have a good point.

Who is to say however, that the fish isn't merely one of the species that will soon cease to exist for its lack of the ability to adapt as the other types of fish have done so well?
If i had to take a guess i'd say that there aren't many of those fish left to be found are there?

i have never seen one

nor will i ever (personally)
but they must have been surviving for a long time if they are still there today

Aichu wrote:But babies sometimes do die hours after they are born.

They are human, and humans cannot be neutral- there is only heaven and hell.

How God judges this, I really can't say.

The reason why we clash, ama, is because you see the world in shades of grey while I see things as black and white...

amaterasu wrote:

Aichu wrote:

amaterasu wrote:

Aichu wrote:

amaterasu wrote:

Aichu wrote:Woah...never expected ama to be the one to revive this o.o

God created the world in six twenty-four hour periods. That's all I'm going to say.

but

there is a problem with that


God doesn't live in time

also history suggests that the earth was mae over 6 billion years or what not

6 days to him could be 6 billion years to us.

we have no way of telling how long his "day" is

Sure there is. You only need to look at it as a constant mesurement. It says six days for creation, and days is later on used in the bible to gauge a span of time close to our 24 hr definition (otherwise noah would have been out at sea for a really long time, lol).

Now, if you were to bring up 'but it never says god creates time in the bible', then we have a BIG mess on our hands, as that would mean we still have no such thing as time

And there is evidence of a young world, it all depends on who you ask. Also, if we believe events in the bible are historic, and since the bible is the word of God, it cannot contradict itself (save for translation errors and transmission errors that pop up as rarely as they do, but the message itself cannot be contradicted) by saying 'yeah, this event is true but this one is totaly balogne'.

but he said to noah i'll flood the earth for 40 days and nights

in the biginning he was only to himself, so it doesn't have to be the same time measurements and thus your theory is flawed
while God does not contradict history, why are there fossils of animals dating back to tens of thousands of years?

Our history started roughly 3500 years before Christ was born

The bible events start somewhere at 4000 or 8000 years (can't remember which)
before christ

But the messurements are recorded from the perspective of the writer. If that were true, the the author would have written something along the lines of six billion years.

And, if adam and even were created on the sixth day and god rested on the seventh, then what were they doing all those thousands of years up until the events of genesis begin?

But God told the man what to write, which he did with the rest of the bible
we tell time by the sun and the earth rotating around it

God doesn't
also a day could have meant something else back then
remember the bible was originally in hebrew

also ove rthe years that God rested on teh 'seventh' day, a lot of things happened, humans discovered fire adn the wheel and all the other inventions and what not, they became sedentary and learned agriculture

remember history class aichu

think back to a time of school and Mme. Levesque and french!

Endless Nothing wrote:

amaterasu wrote:

Endless Nothing wrote:

amaterasu wrote: well God created all animals from his own thoughts
so they do have a connection there

but i don't see how something like this

Spoiler:

a fish which wasn't discovered until sometime in the 1900's could have passed on its genes to adapt to its surrounding

if it was a normal fish, it would have just swam to the surface
and yet it lives in the darkest part of the ocean with no light, it doesn't appear to have adapted, and if Darwin's theory was correct, it would have to apply to all animals.

I can not see the picture but gathering from what you have said, you have a good point.

Who is to say however, that the fish isn't merely one of the species that will soon cease to exist for its lack of the ability to adapt as the other types of fish have done so well?
If i had to take a guess i'd say that there aren't many of those fish left to be found are there?

i have never seen one

nor will i ever (personally)
but they must have been surviving for a long time if they are still there today

Not necessarily. The reason we only found them recently may be because it was only recently that the fish ceased to adapt and became this 'new' species.

Aichu wrote:Pretty much everywhere else where the word day is used.

Why would God use the same word if it meant something different. You have to really step back and look at the purpose of the bible- God's not trying to mess with out heads.

Endless Nothing wrote:

amaterasu wrote:
But God told the man what to write, which he did with the rest of the bible
we tell time by the sun and the earth rotating around it

God doesn't
also a day could have meant something else back then
remember the bible was originally in hebrew

also ove rthe years that God rested on teh 'seventh' day, a lot of things happened, humans discovered fire adn the wheel and all the other inventions and what not, they became sedentary and learned agriculture

remember history class aichu

think back to a time of school and Mme. Levesque and french!

To further that point how do we know god isn't still in his day of rest?

Aichu wrote: Then you would think there would be a whole lot more people in the garden of eden after all those thousands of years. And crowded to, with the whole not dying part and all.

amaterasu wrote:

Aichu wrote:But babies sometimes do die hours after they are born.

They are human, and humans cannot be neutral- there is only heaven and hell.

How God judges this, I really can't say.

The reason why we clash, ama, is because you see the world in shades of grey while I see things as black and white...

i'm taking this debate away from your novella thread aichu!!


ok, humans are neutral, which is why we can be forgiven

if we were positive or negative, we would be at birth, and thus people's destiny to heaven or hell would be predetermined, and God would be a bastard

but thats not the case.

a baby can't be holy or sinful, since it didn't do anything

yes babies have died at birth, but babies have also grown into adults that lived for a hundred years.

Aichu wrote: But that's the thing- our destinies are predetermined. Not because God is a bastard. But think about it- if our destinies weren't predetermined, that means we could find God on our own. But we cannot. No more than candy in a jar can will a child to pick it. God doesn't sit back and hope that another one will join his salvation.

I do not, however, believe that babies and young infants are held accountable before God. For that reason, I also believe that when God takes up the life of a young child, it is an act of mercy- maybe that person would have grown up unsaved. I do not believe the infant firstborn that died in egypt went to hell. But then again, that's up to God.

Endless Nothing wrote:

Aichu wrote: But that's the thing- our destinies are predetermined. Not because God is a bastard. But think about it- if our destinies weren't predetermined, that means we could find God on our own. But we cannot. No more than candy in a jar can will a child to pick it. God doesn't sit back and hope that another one will join his salvation.

I do not, however, believe that babies and young infants are held accountable before God. For that reason, I also believe that when God takes up the life of a young child, it is an act of mercy- maybe that person would have grown up unsaved. I do not believe the infant firstborn that died in egypt went to hell. But then again, that's up to God.

So no one goes to hell in this theory of yours? Or if they do then god hated them and wanted them to. Otherwise he would have 'predetermined' them to be good in life and go to heaven.

Aichu wrote:

Endless Nothing wrote:

Aichu wrote: But that's the thing- our destinies are predetermined. Not because God is a bastard. But think about it- if our destinies weren't predetermined, that means we could find God on our own. But we cannot. No more than candy in a jar can will a child to pick it. God doesn't sit back and hope that another one will join his salvation.

I do not, however, believe that babies and young infants are held accountable before God. For that reason, I also believe that when God takes up the life of a young child, it is an act of mercy- maybe that person would have grown up unsaved. I do not believe the infant firstborn that died in egypt went to hell. But then again, that's up to God.

So no one goes to hell in this theory of yours? Or if they do then god hated them and wanted them to. Otherwise he would have 'predetermined' them to be good in life and go to heaven.

Without God's grace, we would all go to Hell.

No, he doesn't hate anyone. God loves everyone. But we are also rebels, and have fallen from him. How does he decide? I don't know.

Aichu wrote:

sabaku no ketsueki wrote:

Aichu wrote:Woah...never expected ama to be the one to revive this o.o

God created the world in six twenty-four hour periods. That's all I'm going to say.

rrreeaalllly?
I don't think so, aichu. you up for a little debate with ol' saba?

Sure :3

Endless Nothing wrote:

Aichu wrote:

Endless Nothing wrote:

Aichu wrote: But that's the thing- our destinies are predetermined. Not because God is a bastard. But think about it- if our destinies weren't predetermined, that means we could find God on our own. But we cannot. No more than candy in a jar can will a child to pick it. God doesn't sit back and hope that another one will join his salvation.

I do not, however, believe that babies and young infants are held accountable before God. For that reason, I also believe that when God takes up the life of a young child, it is an act of mercy- maybe that person would have grown up unsaved. I do not believe the infant firstborn that died in egypt went to hell. But then again, that's up to God.

So no one goes to hell in this theory of yours? Or if they do then god hated them and wanted them to. Otherwise he would have 'predetermined' them to be good in life and go to heaven.

Without God's grace, we would all go to Hell.

No, he doesn't hate anyone. God loves everyone. But we are also rebels, and have fallen from him. How does he decide? I don't know.

Then our ability to make choices is proof enough that our lives are not pre-determined. God gave us choice because he wanted us to truly love him. If he pre-determined our entire existance than we would be forced to choose him and thus we couldn't possibly truly love him because we had no other choice. Some people just make the wrong choice.

Aichu wrote:

Endless Nothing wrote:

Aichu wrote:

Endless Nothing wrote:

Aichu wrote: But that's the thing- our destinies are predetermined. Not because God is a bastard. But think about it- if our destinies weren't predetermined, that means we could find God on our own. But we cannot. No more than candy in a jar can will a child to pick it. God doesn't sit back and hope that another one will join his salvation.

I do not, however, believe that babies and young infants are held accountable before God. For that reason, I also believe that when God takes up the life of a young child, it is an act of mercy- maybe that person would have grown up unsaved. I do not believe the infant firstborn that died in egypt went to hell. But then again, that's up to God.

So no one goes to hell in this theory of yours? Or if they do then god hated them and wanted them to. Otherwise he would have 'predetermined' them to be good in life and go to heaven.

Without God's grace, we would all go to Hell.

No, he doesn't hate anyone. God loves everyone. But we are also rebels, and have fallen from him. How does he decide? I don't know.

Then our ability to make choices is proof enough that our lives are not pre-determined. God gave us choice because he wanted us to truly love him. If he pre-determined our entire existance than we would be forced to choose him and thus we couldn't possibly truly love him because we had no other choice. Some people just make the wrong choice.

But nothing happens apart from God willing it. We can just do something without God willing it to happen. So yes, technically we can make choices, but God already knows exactly what we're going to do.

And don't give me any of this 'master of our own fate' business. Because it's a bunch of nonsense.