Creation Vs Evolution

amaterasu wrote:

Aichu wrote:

amaterasu wrote:

Aichu wrote:But babies sometimes do die hours after they are born.

They are human, and humans cannot be neutral- there is only heaven and hell.

How God judges this, I really can't say.

The reason why we clash, ama, is because you see the world in shades of grey while I see things as black and white...

i'm taking this debate away from your novella thread aichu!!


ok, humans are neutral, which is why we can be forgiven

if we were positive or negative, we would be at birth, and thus people's destiny to heaven or hell would be predetermined, and God would be a bastard

but thats not the case.

a baby can't be holy or sinful, since it didn't do anything

yes babies have died at birth, but babies have also grown into adults that lived for a hundred years.

But that's the thing- our destinies are predetermined. Not because God is a bastard. But think about it- if our destinies weren't predetermined, that means we could find God on our own. But we cannot. No more than candy in a jar can will a child to pick it. God doesn't sit back and hope that another one will join his salvation.

I do not, however, believe that babies and young infants are held accountable before God. For that reason, I also believe that when God takes up the life of a young child, it is an act of mercy- maybe that person would have grown up unsaved. I do not believe the infant firstborn that died in egypt went to hell. But then again, that's up to God.

Then don't call yourself a christian Aichu

WHAT DO YOU THINK JESUS DID?

He came down so that EVERYONE could be saved through him, they only needed to confess with their mouths and believe in their hearts that Jesus died on the cross for everyone's sins and that HE IS THE ONLY WAY to heaven.

You misunderstand me, Ama.

But like I said, God doesn't sit back and hope more people become Christian.

He is active in our salvation.

What I am talking about is the L in the acronymn TULIP.

For those who've never heard of TULIP:

http://www.thecaveonline.com/APEH/calvinTULIP.html

It's an acrynymn by John Calvin that quite accurately describes salvation.

Aichu wrote:

amaterasu wrote:

Aichu wrote:

amaterasu wrote:

Aichu wrote:But babies sometimes do die hours after they are born.

They are human, and humans cannot be neutral- there is only heaven and hell.

How God judges this, I really can't say.

The reason why we clash, ama, is because you see the world in shades of grey while I see things as black and white...

i'm taking this debate away from your novella thread aichu!!


ok, humans are neutral, which is why we can be forgiven

if we were positive or negative, we would be at birth, and thus people's destiny to heaven or hell would be predetermined, and God would be a bastard

but thats not the case.

a baby can't be holy or sinful, since it didn't do anything

yes babies have died at birth, but babies have also grown into adults that lived for a hundred years.

But that's the thing- our destinies are predetermined. Not because God is a bastard. But think about it- if our destinies weren't predetermined, that means we could find God on our own. But we cannot. No more than candy in a jar can will a child to pick it. God doesn't sit back and hope that another one will join his salvation.

I do not, however, believe that babies and young infants are held accountable before God. For that reason, I also believe that when God takes up the life of a young child, it is an act of mercy- maybe that person would have grown up unsaved. I do not believe the infant firstborn that died in egypt went to hell. But then again, that's up to God.

Then don't call yourself a christian Aichu

WHAT DO YOU THINK JESUS DID?

He came down so that EVERYONE could be saved through him, they only needed to confess with their mouths and believe in their hearts that Jesus died on the cross for everyone's sins and that HE IS THE ONLY WAY to heaven.

You misunderstand me, Ama.

But like I said, God doesn't sit back and hope more people become Christian.

He is active in our salvation.

What I am talking about is the L in the acronymn TULIP.

Our destinies are not predetermined


look at it this way

we are like fish in a fish tank

our life starts from the left and ends at the right

God is like a person watching the fish (us)

he sees everything we will face, how long we will live and what choices we will make

and now paradox time


we get to obstacle 1

we have choice a and choice b

whatever one we chose, god knows.

So here it goes

we chose A
well God knew that from the beginning,
but if we chose B
He knew we were going to chose that,

he doesn't go like, ya'll going to have to do what i say, duh, he lets us have a freedom of choice, he just knows what we are going to do.

Also it says somewhere in the new testament that all men shall be judged before God. So if you die at age 1 minute or age 1950425705896157812342185-072 years old
and everywhere in between, you will be judged

and by the way, hell isn't for bad people.

Heaven is for people who want to be with God and accept him as their savior
Hell is for the people who don't want God
it's pretty simple

Aichu wrote:For those who've never heard of TULIP:

http://www.thecaveonline.com/APEH/calvinTULIP.html

It's an acrynymn by John Calvin that quite accurately describes salvation.

flawed

it goes against Jesus

o.o where did I say hell was for bad people?

I can see where you're coming from, but God just doesn't watch. He's not a passive God.

amaterasu wrote:

Aichu wrote:For those who've never heard of TULIP:

http://www.thecaveonline.com/APEH/calvinTULIP.html

It's an acrynymn by John Calvin that quite accurately describes salvation.

flawed

it goes against Jesus

Expand, please.

Aichu wrote:

amaterasu wrote:

Aichu wrote:For those who've never heard of TULIP:

http://www.thecaveonline.com/APEH/calvinTULIP.html

It's an acrynymn by John Calvin that quite accurately describes salvation.

flawed

it goes against Jesus

Expand, please.

first watch and listen adn taken in teh meaning



T -- total depravity. This doesn't mean people are as bad as they can be. It means that sin is in every part of one's being, including the mind and will, so that a man cannot save himself.

U -- unconditional election. God chooses to save people unconditionally; that is, they are not chosen on the basis of their own merit.

L -- limited atonement. The sacrifice of Christ on the cross was for the purpose of saving the elect.

I -- irresistible grace. When God has chosen to save someone, He will.

P -- perseverence of the saints. Those people God chooses cannot lose their salvation; they will continue to believe. If they fall away, it will be only for a time.

T-- man is not and cannot be naturally sinful
we can do as many sinful actions, but it doesn't make us sinful, it just means we are not heading on the right track and that we are missing the point.

U- Read the Bible, it flat out denies this statement,
Jesus says, search, and you will find, ask and you will receive, knock and the door will open. Meaning when we ask God to save us, we will be saved, not God chosing random people

L- The purpose of Christ was the the whole world (and everyone on it) could be saved, not the elect, EVERYONE!!!!!!!
Not that they wioll be saved, but it gives them the opportunity t be saved, if they ask

I- God does not force people (usually) to be saved, he doesn't want robots, he wants peoiple's hearts. Meaning they have to want to be saved and love him

P- Ok, this one is good, but i heard at one of my sermons a story of the new testament (can't remember where) that a certain church(s) did something and everyone who followed them had their names removed from the book of life....

by the way, to believe is your own choice, no one elses

Compared to Aichu and Amaterasu's Discussion I feel like Endless and I figure things out much quicker ^_^

quater wrote:Compared to Aichu and Amaterasu's Discussion I feel like Endless and I figure things out much quicker ^_^

it appears so lol

T-- Ah, I'm not even going to bother with this one. We've already ran circles with it

U- You need to ask for forgiveness in order to be saved. But God knows how many will be saved. Short of becoming a Christian there is nothing we can do to get to God, AKA WORKS.

L- When Christ died on the cross, he covered the sins of those who God knew would be saved. Think about it. If he covered the sins of ever person in the world, then they would autimatically be saved.

I- Who says they're being forced to be saved? When God calls us, he reveals his irrisistable grace to us- we WANT to be saved.

That's about all I have to say tonight. We apparently have some doctrinal differences, but hey, that's what discussion is for. You can talk to me about it in the morning if you like.

Edit: I'll watch the vid in the morning, no sound right now ^^;

quater wrote:Compared to Aichu and Amaterasu's Discussion I feel like Endless and I figure things out much quicker ^_^

I love discussions, m'kay?

Aichu wrote:

quater wrote:Compared to Aichu and Amaterasu's Discussion I feel like Endless and I figure things out much quicker ^_^

I love discussions, m'kay?

No need to be so serious Aichu.

I practically obsess over them at times

no coments to this thread or i'll have angry people after me with pitchforks and torchese

How old fashioned Saiyo. Just get me ol trusty Shot Gun and Kapow!

quater wrote:Compared to Aichu and Amaterasu's Discussion I feel like Endless and I figure things out much quicker ^_^

Haha, you make that sound as if you and i have figured out exactly how life began, no ifs ands or buts.

Endless Nothing wrote:

quater wrote:Compared to Aichu and Amaterasu's Discussion I feel like Endless and I figure things out much quicker ^_^

Haha, you know one could take that as if you were saying that you and i have figured out exactly how life began, no ifs ands or buts.

Well not exactly.

But we are right there. Like 93% Xp ^_^

Saiyo wrote:no coments to this thread or i'll have angry people after me with pitchforks and torchese

don't worry, we can't do that over the internet
plsu, i don't even have a fitchpork

Aichu wrote:T-- Ah, I'm not even going to bother with this one. We've already ran circles with it

U- You need to ask for forgiveness in order to be saved. But God knows how many will be saved. Short of becoming a Christian there is nothing we can do to get to God, AKA WORKS.

L- When Christ died on the cross, he covered the sins of those who God knew would be saved. Think about it. If he covered the sins of ever person in the world, then they would autimatically be saved.

I- Who says they're being forced to be saved? When God calls us, he reveals his irrisistable grace to us- we WANT to be saved.

That's about all I have to say tonight. We apparently have some doctrinal differences, but hey, that's what discussion is for. You can talk to me about it in the morning if you like.

Edit: I'll watch the vid in the morning, no sound right now ^^;

apparently we don't
because this tulip thing doesn't go along with the bible, which I believe in.

Aichu wrote:T-- Ah, I'm not even going to bother with this one. We've already ran circles with it

U- You need to ask for forgiveness in order to be saved. But God knows how many will be saved. Short of becoming a Christian there is nothing we can do to get to God, AKA WORKS.

L- When Christ died on the cross, he covered the sins of those who God knew would be saved. Think about it. If he covered the sins of ever person in the world, then they would autimatically be saved.

I- Who says they're being forced to be saved? When God calls us, he reveals his irrisistable grace to us- we WANT to be saved.

That's about all I have to say tonight. We apparently have some doctrinal differences, but hey, that's what discussion is for. You can talk to me about it in the morning if you like.

Edit: I'll watch the vid in the morning, no sound right now ^^;

About the U, I have a question, Aichu.

In a hypothetical situation, let's say if you have never heard of Jesus Christ, would you be sent to hell and not be saved?

Titaniumxvx wrote:

Aichu wrote:T-- Ah, I'm not even going to bother with this one. We've already ran circles with it

U- You need to ask for forgiveness in order to be saved. But God knows how many will be saved. Short of becoming a Christian there is nothing we can do to get to God, AKA WORKS.

L- When Christ died on the cross, he covered the sins of those who God knew would be saved. Think about it. If he covered the sins of ever person in the world, then they would autimatically be saved.

I- Who says they're being forced to be saved? When God calls us, he reveals his irrisistable grace to us- we WANT to be saved.

That's about all I have to say tonight. We apparently have some doctrinal differences, but hey, that's what discussion is for. You can talk to me about it in the morning if you like.

Edit: I'll watch the vid in the morning, no sound right now ^^;

About the U, I have a question, Aichu.

In a hypothetical situation, let's say if you have never heard of Jesus Christ, would you be sent to hell and not be saved?

I know there are some tribes in foreing countries where there is no contact with civilization where such a thing happens. It would be up to God to judge. I'm not God, so I don't know how he judges. But even with these people, God knows before the world began where they would go.

Aichu wrote:

Titaniumxvx wrote:

Aichu wrote:T-- Ah, I'm not even going to bother with this one. We've already ran circles with it

U- You need to ask for forgiveness in order to be saved. But God knows how many will be saved. Short of becoming a Christian there is nothing we can do to get to God, AKA WORKS.

L- When Christ died on the cross, he covered the sins of those who God knew would be saved. Think about it. If he covered the sins of ever person in the world, then they would autimatically be saved.

I- Who says they're being forced to be saved? When God calls us, he reveals his irrisistable grace to us- we WANT to be saved.

That's about all I have to say tonight. We apparently have some doctrinal differences, but hey, that's what discussion is for. You can talk to me about it in the morning if you like.

Edit: I'll watch the vid in the morning, no sound right now ^^;

About the U, I have a question, Aichu.

In a hypothetical situation, let's say if you have never heard of Jesus Christ, would you be sent to hell and not be saved?

I know there are some tribes in foreing countries where there is no contact with civilization where such a thing happens. It would be up to God to judge. I'm not God, so I don't know how he judges. But even with these people, God knows before the world began where they would go.

Jesus said something about that, but i don't know where

amaterasu wrote:

Aichu wrote:T-- Ah, I'm not even going to bother with this one. We've already ran circles with it

U- You need to ask for forgiveness in order to be saved. But God knows how many will be saved. Short of becoming a Christian there is nothing we can do to get to God, AKA WORKS.

L- When Christ died on the cross, he covered the sins of those who God knew would be saved. Think about it. If he covered the sins of ever person in the world, then they would autimatically be saved.

I- Who says they're being forced to be saved? When God calls us, he reveals his irrisistable grace to us- we WANT to be saved.

That's about all I have to say tonight. We apparently have some doctrinal differences, but hey, that's what discussion is for. You can talk to me about it in the morning if you like.

Edit: I'll watch the vid in the morning, no sound right now ^^;

apparently we don't
because this tulip thing doesn't go along with the bible, which I believe in.

I believe in the bible to, Ama. My interpretation is just different from yours. No two Christians have the exact same set of beliefs- what IS important is that we get the main message right: We need God, Jesus was perfect, he died for our sins, the only way to God is Jesus.

Aichu wrote:

amaterasu wrote:

Aichu wrote:T-- Ah, I'm not even going to bother with this one. We've already ran circles with it

U- You need to ask for forgiveness in order to be saved. But God knows how many will be saved. Short of becoming a Christian there is nothing we can do to get to God, AKA WORKS.

L- When Christ died on the cross, he covered the sins of those who God knew would be saved. Think about it. If he covered the sins of ever person in the world, then they would autimatically be saved.

I- Who says they're being forced to be saved? When God calls us, he reveals his irrisistable grace to us- we WANT to be saved.

That's about all I have to say tonight. We apparently have some doctrinal differences, but hey, that's what discussion is for. You can talk to me about it in the morning if you like.

Edit: I'll watch the vid in the morning, no sound right now ^^;

apparently we don't
because this tulip thing doesn't go along with the bible, which I believe in.

I believe in the bible to, Ama. My interpretation is just different from yours. No two Christians have the exact same set of beliefs- what IS important is that we get the main message right: We need God, Jesus was perfect, he died for our sins, the only way to God is Jesus.

John 3:17
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.


not the elect, but everyone

you may think we both believe in the same things, but it doesn't look like it to me

also Aichu, you seem to be forgetting the most important thing.

Something so important, the Tulip thing is impossible





and also opinions are just a immunity to being told your wrong

Aichu wrote:

Titaniumxvx wrote:

Aichu wrote:T-- Ah, I'm not even going to bother with this one. We've already ran circles with it

U- You need to ask for forgiveness in order to be saved. But God knows how many will be saved. Short of becoming a Christian there is nothing we can do to get to God, AKA WORKS.

L- When Christ died on the cross, he covered the sins of those who God knew would be saved. Think about it. If he covered the sins of ever person in the world, then they would autimatically be saved.

I- Who says they're being forced to be saved? When God calls us, he reveals his irrisistable grace to us- we WANT to be saved.

That's about all I have to say tonight. We apparently have some doctrinal differences, but hey, that's what discussion is for. You can talk to me about it in the morning if you like.

Edit: I'll watch the vid in the morning, no sound right now ^^;

About the U, I have a question, Aichu.

In a hypothetical situation, let's say if you have never heard of Jesus Christ, would you be sent to hell and not be saved?

I know there are some tribes in foreing countries where there is no contact with civilization where such a thing happens. It would be up to God to judge. I'm not God, so I don't know how he judges. But even with these people, God knows before the world began where they would go.

Then wouldn't it make sense that all roads lead to the same path?

What I mean is that no matter what the circumstance, you're not going to be damned just because you're not necessarily a Christian.