Black and white or shades of grey?

knssquad wrote:

amaterasu wrote:My view on this is this:


There is no gray.

There is no gray when you are robbing a band.

there is no gray when you break the law

there is no gray when you commit suicide.
and there is no gray in deciding to hit someone with your car.

I could go on and on, but hopefully you get my point. Most things in life there is only yes or no. Action or no action.

in any given situation there is always a yes or no and always a action or no action.

some situations like someone asks you to give them all your money. You say no, they kill you. You say yes and give it to them.

the consequences are vastly different in each situation but the questions are always the same.

A gunman doesn't think about whether he will kill someone but he thinks who is he going to kill

But, if you had to choose between killing a stranger and killing your best friend, what is the right choice and what is the wrong choice?

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:You can use right and wrong interchangeably with White and black it's a matter of choice if you do. Just because I don't know all that is black and white doesn't mean it matters because I Am not the eternal judge on the matter (Kinda less burdensome in a way).

Afterall you no one fully comprehends love even though we all love and fall in love. But we don't fully understand it we can still make it into concepts no? Well it's the same except that right and wrong are more resolute.

Then, what you are saying is that we cannot say what is black and what is white. So we have to view it as grey.

Black and white exists, but so does grey, and that is how humans view morals because our minds could not comprehend black and white.

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:The thread spoke of viewing black and white in terms of morality, and morals are based in right and wrong. Wrong - Black and white - is Right.

Is this a confusing topic or do I need to make it simpler?

Um, yes it can. Jesus Christ clearly cut out most if not nearly all Jewish practices we had (And my peep has never been happier about it). Judaism is The History that lead to Jesus.

Everyone doesn't have good in them. Only the Lord Christ can make someone white and that is what death on the Christ was for. God said our good deeds were like dirty rags. (I am only going metaphysical here because you seem content to hammer it out like this)

But thats the problem with black and white arguments, the argument base itself is flawed.

No, it cannot, because the God of Judaism, and the God of Christianity are basically the same. I can say that because of Messianic Judaism. The Book of Life was even spoke about in the New Testament, was it not? The same one.

People do have good in them, we are not 100% evil, because we can change. We are not condemned to one fate because we are grey. Complex, isn't it?

The argument is not flawed. It's because we disagree.

Jesus Said no man comes to the Father except through me and only those who accepted Christ will be found in the book of life. Which basically nullifies that argument or whatever that was.

Any who sins falls short of the Glory of God.

amaterasu wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:You can use right and wrong interchangeably with White and black it's a matter of choice if you do. Just because I don't know all that is black and white doesn't mean it matters because I Am not the eternal judge on the matter (Kinda less burdensome in a way).

Afterall you no one fully comprehends love even though we all love and fall in love. But we don't fully understand it we can still make it into concepts no? Well it's the same except that right and wrong are more resolute.

Then, what you are saying is that we cannot say what is black and what is white. So we have to view it as grey.

Black and white exists, but so does grey, and that is how humans view morals because our minds could not comprehend black and white.

it's gray I believe. Well in Canada anyway


well moving on to this

black------------------------------------------------------------------------white

opposite ends of the line. They cannot meet and cannot be together because (and this is true) wherever light is there is no darkness. the same with white and black. Where there is white there cannot be black.

amaterasu wrote:

knssquad wrote:

amaterasu wrote:My view on this is this:


There is no gray.

There is no gray when you are robbing a band.

there is no gray when you break the law

there is no gray when you commit suicide.
and there is no gray in deciding to hit someone with your car.

I could go on and on, but hopefully you get my point. Most things in life there is only yes or no. Action or no action.

in any given situation there is always a yes or no and always a action or no action.

some situations like someone asks you to give them all your money. You say no, they kill you. You say yes and give it to them.

the consequences are vastly different in each situation but the questions are always the same.

A gunman doesn't think about whether he will kill someone but he thinks who is he going to kill

But, if you had to choose between killing a stranger and killing your best friend, what is the right choice and what is the wrong choice?

Who says I have to kill them?

there are plenty of ways to stop someone without killing them

you can even stop someone without touching them.

knssquad wrote:

amaterasu wrote:

knssquad wrote:

amaterasu wrote:My view on this is this:


There is no gray.

There is no gray when you are robbing a band.

there is no gray when you break the law

there is no gray when you commit suicide.
and there is no gray in deciding to hit someone with your car.

I could go on and on, but hopefully you get my point. Most things in life there is only yes or no. Action or no action.

in any given situation there is always a yes or no and always a action or no action.

some situations like someone asks you to give them all your money. You say no, they kill you. You say yes and give it to them.

the consequences are vastly different in each situation but the questions are always the same.

A gunman doesn't think about whether he will kill someone but he thinks who is he going to kill

But, if you had to choose between killing a stranger and killing your best friend, what is the right choice and what is the wrong choice?

Who says I have to kill them?

there are plenty of ways to stop someone without killing them

you can even stop someone without touching them.

How so?

What if those were your only options?

Answer the question, what is right and what is wrong?

quater wrote:Mhm I agree.

Personally I am getting kind of tired of this.

I can't force you to believe that there are rights and wrongs and blacks and whites. So you can have moral relatism Knssquad and I will miss out on that one joy okay?

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:The thread spoke of viewing black and white in terms of morality, and morals are based in right and wrong. Wrong - Black and white - is Right.

Is this a confusing topic or do I need to make it simpler?

Um, yes it can. Jesus Christ clearly cut out most if not nearly all Jewish practices we had (And my peep has never been happier about it). Judaism is The History that lead to Jesus.

Everyone doesn't have good in them. Only the Lord Christ can make someone white and that is what death on the Christ was for. God said our good deeds were like dirty rags. (I am only going metaphysical here because you seem content to hammer it out like this)

But thats the problem with black and white arguments, the argument base itself is flawed.

No, it cannot, because the God of Judaism, and the God of Christianity are basically the same. I can say that because of Messianic Judaism. The Book of Life was even spoke about in the New Testament, was it not? The same one.

People do have good in them, we are not 100% evil, because we can change. We are not condemned to one fate because we are grey. Complex, isn't it?

The argument is not flawed. It's because we disagree.

Jesus Said no man comes to the Father except through me and only those who accepted Christ will be found in the book of life. Which basically nullifies that argument or whatever that was.

Any who sins falls short of the Glory of God.

You don't even know what Messianic Judaism is. Research, then come back to me before you cast it off.

We all fall short, but we are not fully evil. So we are not black. We are not so simple to label like that. Not black because they that would mean to be accepted into heaven, we would need to be white, and only one man has pulled that off.

But, I'm pretty sure there is more than just The Lord and his son in Heaven

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:Mhm I agree.

Personally I am getting kind of tired of this.

I can't force you to believe that there are rights and wrongs and blacks and whites. So you can have moral relatism Knssquad and I will miss out on that one joy okay?

That was fun. I think I might like philosophical debates. Thank you.

Banouin wrote:

knssquad wrote:

amaterasu wrote:

knssquad wrote:

amaterasu wrote:My view on this is this:


There is no gray.

There is no gray when you are robbing a band.

there is no gray when you break the law

there is no gray when you commit suicide.
and there is no gray in deciding to hit someone with your car.

I could go on and on, but hopefully you get my point. Most things in life there is only yes or no. Action or no action.

in any given situation there is always a yes or no and always a action or no action.

some situations like someone asks you to give them all your money. You say no, they kill you. You say yes and give it to them.

the consequences are vastly different in each situation but the questions are always the same.

A gunman doesn't think about whether he will kill someone but he thinks who is he going to kill

But, if you had to choose between killing a stranger and killing your best friend, what is the right choice and what is the wrong choice?

Who says I have to kill them?

there are plenty of ways to stop someone without killing them

you can even stop someone without touching them.

How so?

What if those were your only options?

Answer the question, what is right and what is wrong?

AS I said, Killing is wrong, no matter what. To take life. Is wrong, End of it.

knssquad wrote:

amaterasu wrote:

knssquad wrote:

amaterasu wrote:My view on this is this:


There is no gray.

There is no gray when you are robbing a band.

there is no gray when you break the law

there is no gray when you commit suicide.
and there is no gray in deciding to hit someone with your car.

I could go on and on, but hopefully you get my point. Most things in life there is only yes or no. Action or no action.

in any given situation there is always a yes or no and always a action or no action.

some situations like someone asks you to give them all your money. You say no, they kill you. You say yes and give it to them.

the consequences are vastly different in each situation but the questions are always the same.

A gunman doesn't think about whether he will kill someone but he thinks who is he going to kill

But, if you had to choose between killing a stranger and killing your best friend, what is the right choice and what is the wrong choice?

Who says I have to kill them?

there are plenty of ways to stop someone without killing them

you can even stop someone without touching them.

How so?

What if those were your only options?

Answer the question, what is right and what is wrong?

knssquad wrote:

Banouin wrote:

knssquad wrote:

amaterasu wrote:

knssquad wrote:

amaterasu wrote:My view on this is this:


There is no gray.

There is no gray when you are robbing a band.

there is no gray when you break the law

there is no gray when you commit suicide.
and there is no gray in deciding to hit someone with your car.

I could go on and on, but hopefully you get my point. Most things in life there is only yes or no. Action or no action.

in any given situation there is always a yes or no and always a action or no action.

some situations like someone asks you to give them all your money. You say no, they kill you. You say yes and give it to them.

the consequences are vastly different in each situation but the questions are always the same.

A gunman doesn't think about whether he will kill someone but he thinks who is he going to kill

But, if you had to choose between killing a stranger and killing your best friend, what is the right choice and what is the wrong choice?

Who says I have to kill them?

there are plenty of ways to stop someone without killing them

you can even stop someone without touching them.

How so?

What if those were your only options?

Answer the question, what is right and what is wrong?

AS I said, Killing is wrong, no matter what. To take life. Is wrong, End of it.

But he said there is always a right choice

What is it if those are your only options?

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:The thread spoke of viewing black and white in terms of morality, and morals are based in right and wrong. Wrong - Black and white - is Right.

Is this a confusing topic or do I need to make it simpler?

Um, yes it can. Jesus Christ clearly cut out most if not nearly all Jewish practices we had (And my peep has never been happier about it). Judaism is The History that lead to Jesus.

Everyone doesn't have good in them. Only the Lord Christ can make someone white and that is what death on the Christ was for. God said our good deeds were like dirty rags. (I am only going metaphysical here because you seem content to hammer it out like this)

But thats the problem with black and white arguments, the argument base itself is flawed.

No, it cannot, because the God of Judaism, and the God of Christianity are basically the same. I can say that because of Messianic Judaism. The Book of Life was even spoke about in the New Testament, was it not? The same one.

People do have good in them, we are not 100% evil, because we can change. We are not condemned to one fate because we are grey. Complex, isn't it?

The argument is not flawed. It's because we disagree.

Jesus Said no man comes to the Father except through me and only those who accepted Christ will be found in the book of life. Which basically nullifies that argument or whatever that was.

Any who sins falls short of the Glory of God.

You don't even know what Messianic Judaism is. Research, then come back to me before you cast it off.

We all fall short, but we are not fully evil. So we are not black. We are not so simple to label like that. Not black because they that would mean to be accepted into heaven, we would need to be white, and only one man has pulled that off.

But, I'm pretty sure there is more than just The Lord and his son in Heaven

Yes I do. But I also believe in Lord Jesus's words a lot more then what the Messianic Jews did. Messianic Judaism believes Jesus is the messiah they waited for (He is) but they continue most Jewish traditions (They don't have to but it's not a bad thing either).

That is why we must BELIEVE in Jesus because he paid for our sins. Jesus paid for our sins because otherwise no man would be able to go to heaven because all men are sinners. Yes, we are all black.

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

amaterasu wrote:

knssquad wrote:

amaterasu wrote:My view on this is this:


There is no gray.

There is no gray when you are robbing a band.

there is no gray when you break the law

there is no gray when you commit suicide.
and there is no gray in deciding to hit someone with your car.

I could go on and on, but hopefully you get my point. Most things in life there is only yes or no. Action or no action.

in any given situation there is always a yes or no and always a action or no action.

some situations like someone asks you to give them all your money. You say no, they kill you. You say yes and give it to them.

the consequences are vastly different in each situation but the questions are always the same.

A gunman doesn't think about whether he will kill someone but he thinks who is he going to kill

But, if you had to choose between killing a stranger and killing your best friend, what is the right choice and what is the wrong choice?

Who says I have to kill them?

there are plenty of ways to stop someone without killing them

you can even stop someone without touching them.

How so?

What if those were your only options?

Answer the question, what is right and what is wrong?

Why does he have too? ^_^

Maybe the answer is that there is no answer and we don't know what is right or wrong in that situation? Not that it's a grey, just that we don't know.

My answer would be take my life and spare the others but that's just me.

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:The thread spoke of viewing black and white in terms of morality, and morals are based in right and wrong. Wrong - Black and white - is Right.

Is this a confusing topic or do I need to make it simpler?

Um, yes it can. Jesus Christ clearly cut out most if not nearly all Jewish practices we had (And my peep has never been happier about it). Judaism is The History that lead to Jesus.

Everyone doesn't have good in them. Only the Lord Christ can make someone white and that is what death on the Christ was for. God said our good deeds were like dirty rags. (I am only going metaphysical here because you seem content to hammer it out like this)

But thats the problem with black and white arguments, the argument base itself is flawed.

No, it cannot, because the God of Judaism, and the God of Christianity are basically the same. I can say that because of Messianic Judaism. The Book of Life was even spoke about in the New Testament, was it not? The same one.

People do have good in them, we are not 100% evil, because we can change. We are not condemned to one fate because we are grey. Complex, isn't it?

The argument is not flawed. It's because we disagree.

Jesus Said no man comes to the Father except through me and only those who accepted Christ will be found in the book of life. Which basically nullifies that argument or whatever that was.

Any who sins falls short of the Glory of God.

You don't even know what Messianic Judaism is. Research, then come back to me before you cast it off.

We all fall short, but we are not fully evil. So we are not black. We are not so simple to label like that. Not black because they that would mean to be accepted into heaven, we would need to be white, and only one man has pulled that off.

But, I'm pretty sure there is more than just The Lord and his son in Heaven

Yes I do. But I also believe in Lord Jesus's words a lot more then what the Messianic Jews did. Messianic Judaism believes Jesus is the messiah they waited for (He is) but they continue most Jewish traditions (They don't have to but it's not a bad thing either).

That is why we must BELIEVE in Jesus because he paid for our sins. Jesus paid for our sins because otherwise no man would be able to go to heaven because all men are sinners. Yes, we are all black.

They continue on because you need to remember that these traditions were done before the Messiah was even on Earth. So they continue on to assure that they will not slip up, as you say so.

Not black, It's a transition

in the evil terms

Satan------------------------Humans--------------------------The Lord

We're in between so that we can decide which way to go. We can't be black or white, but we sure can be grey!

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:You can use right and wrong interchangeably with White and black it's a matter of choice if you do. Just because I don't know all that is black and white doesn't mean it matters because I Am not the eternal judge on the matter (Kinda less burdensome in a way).

Afterall you no one fully comprehends love even though we all love and fall in love. But we don't fully understand it we can still make it into concepts no? Well it's the same except that right and wrong are more resolute.

Then, what you are saying is that we cannot say what is black and what is white. So we have to view it as grey.

Black and white exists, but so does grey, and that is how humans view morals because our minds could not comprehend black and white.

That's probably the exact opposite of what I am saying. I am saying we don't know Everything, so we cannot be judges of all situations and know if we did what is right or wrong, but we must strive to do what is right, because it's there.

Our minds are pretty comprehensive of black and white actually.

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:You can use right and wrong interchangeably with White and black it's a matter of choice if you do. Just because I don't know all that is black and white doesn't mean it matters because I Am not the eternal judge on the matter (Kinda less burdensome in a way).

Afterall you no one fully comprehends love even though we all love and fall in love. But we don't fully understand it we can still make it into concepts no? Well it's the same except that right and wrong are more resolute.

Then, what you are saying is that we cannot say what is black and what is white. So we have to view it as grey.

Black and white exists, but so does grey, and that is how humans view morals because our minds could not comprehend black and white.

That's probably the exact opposite of what I am saying. I am saying we don't know Everything, so we cannot be judges of all situations and know if we did what is right or wrong, but we must strive to do what is right, because it's there.

Our minds are pretty comprehensive of black and white actually.

No, our minds are not that simple. So you cannot even say souls are black if we do not know everything.

Because what is black then cannot suddenly be white. and if all souls are black, then how is one soul accepted into Heaven and the other turned away?

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:The thread spoke of viewing black and white in terms of morality, and morals are based in right and wrong. Wrong - Black and white - is Right.

Is this a confusing topic or do I need to make it simpler?

Um, yes it can. Jesus Christ clearly cut out most if not nearly all Jewish practices we had (And my peep has never been happier about it). Judaism is The History that lead to Jesus.

Everyone doesn't have good in them. Only the Lord Christ can make someone white and that is what death on the Christ was for. God said our good deeds were like dirty rags. (I am only going metaphysical here because you seem content to hammer it out like this)

But thats the problem with black and white arguments, the argument base itself is flawed.

No, it cannot, because the God of Judaism, and the God of Christianity are basically the same. I can say that because of Messianic Judaism. The Book of Life was even spoke about in the New Testament, was it not? The same one.

People do have good in them, we are not 100% evil, because we can change. We are not condemned to one fate because we are grey. Complex, isn't it?

The argument is not flawed. It's because we disagree.

Jesus Said no man comes to the Father except through me and only those who accepted Christ will be found in the book of life. Which basically nullifies that argument or whatever that was.

Any who sins falls short of the Glory of God.

You don't even know what Messianic Judaism is. Research, then come back to me before you cast it off.

We all fall short, but we are not fully evil. So we are not black. We are not so simple to label like that. Not black because they that would mean to be accepted into heaven, we would need to be white, and only one man has pulled that off.

But, I'm pretty sure there is more than just The Lord and his son in Heaven

Yes I do. But I also believe in Lord Jesus's words a lot more then what the Messianic Jews did. Messianic Judaism believes Jesus is the messiah they waited for (He is) but they continue most Jewish traditions (They don't have to but it's not a bad thing either).

That is why we must BELIEVE in Jesus because he paid for our sins. Jesus paid for our sins because otherwise no man would be able to go to heaven because all men are sinners. Yes, we are all black.

They continue on because you need to remember that these traditions were done before the Messiah was even on Earth. So they continue on to assure that they will not slip up, as you say so.

Not black, It's a transition

in the evil terms

Satan------------------------Humans--------------------------The Lord

We're in between so that we can decide which way to go. We can't be black or white, but we sure can be grey!

I don't care what Messianic Jews do. Personally as long as they have the Jesus is messiah deal down we are fine.

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:The thread spoke of viewing black and white in terms of morality, and morals are based in right and wrong. Wrong - Black and white - is Right.

Is this a confusing topic or do I need to make it simpler?

Um, yes it can. Jesus Christ clearly cut out most if not nearly all Jewish practices we had (And my peep has never been happier about it). Judaism is The History that lead to Jesus.

Everyone doesn't have good in them. Only the Lord Christ can make someone white and that is what death on the Christ was for. God said our good deeds were like dirty rags. (I am only going metaphysical here because you seem content to hammer it out like this)

But thats the problem with black and white arguments, the argument base itself is flawed.

No, it cannot, because the God of Judaism, and the God of Christianity are basically the same. I can say that because of Messianic Judaism. The Book of Life was even spoke about in the New Testament, was it not? The same one.

People do have good in them, we are not 100% evil, because we can change. We are not condemned to one fate because we are grey. Complex, isn't it?

The argument is not flawed. It's because we disagree.

Jesus Said no man comes to the Father except through me and only those who accepted Christ will be found in the book of life. Which basically nullifies that argument or whatever that was.

Any who sins falls short of the Glory of God.

You don't even know what Messianic Judaism is. Research, then come back to me before you cast it off.

We all fall short, but we are not fully evil. So we are not black. We are not so simple to label like that. Not black because they that would mean to be accepted into heaven, we would need to be white, and only one man has pulled that off.

But, I'm pretty sure there is more than just The Lord and his son in Heaven

Yes I do. But I also believe in Lord Jesus's words a lot more then what the Messianic Jews did. Messianic Judaism believes Jesus is the messiah they waited for (He is) but they continue most Jewish traditions (They don't have to but it's not a bad thing either).

That is why we must BELIEVE in Jesus because he paid for our sins. Jesus paid for our sins because otherwise no man would be able to go to heaven because all men are sinners. Yes, we are all black.

They continue on because you need to remember that these traditions were done before the Messiah was even on Earth. So they continue on to assure that they will not slip up, as you say so.

Not black, It's a transition

in the evil terms

Satan------------------------Humans--------------------------The Lord

We're in between so that we can decide which way to go. We can't be black or white, but we sure can be grey!

I don't care what Messianic Jews do. Personally as long as they have the Jesus is messiah deal down we are fine.

And you didn't say anything about the major part of that post =.=.=

I even made a pretty graph for it! D:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:You can use right and wrong interchangeably with White and black it's a matter of choice if you do. Just because I don't know all that is black and white doesn't mean it matters because I Am not the eternal judge on the matter (Kinda less burdensome in a way).

Afterall you no one fully comprehends love even though we all love and fall in love. But we don't fully understand it we can still make it into concepts no? Well it's the same except that right and wrong are more resolute.

Then, what you are saying is that we cannot say what is black and what is white. So we have to view it as grey.

Black and white exists, but so does grey, and that is how humans view morals because our minds could not comprehend black and white.

That's probably the exact opposite of what I am saying. I am saying we don't know Everything, so we cannot be judges of all situations and know if we did what is right or wrong, but we must strive to do what is right, because it's there.

Our minds are pretty comprehensive of black and white actually.

No, our minds are not that simple. So you cannot even say souls are black if we do not know everything.

Because what is black then cannot suddenly be white. and if all souls are black, then how is one soul accepted into Heaven and the other turned away?

Because God has sent his son to pay the price for our sins.

That is the only way a soul can become White through God because he paid the price of our sins.

And really, that's a simple fact.

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:You can use right and wrong interchangeably with White and black it's a matter of choice if you do. Just because I don't know all that is black and white doesn't mean it matters because I Am not the eternal judge on the matter (Kinda less burdensome in a way).

Afterall you no one fully comprehends love even though we all love and fall in love. But we don't fully understand it we can still make it into concepts no? Well it's the same except that right and wrong are more resolute.

Then, what you are saying is that we cannot say what is black and what is white. So we have to view it as grey.

Black and white exists, but so does grey, and that is how humans view morals because our minds could not comprehend black and white.

That's probably the exact opposite of what I am saying. I am saying we don't know Everything, so we cannot be judges of all situations and know if we did what is right or wrong, but we must strive to do what is right, because it's there.

Our minds are pretty comprehensive of black and white actually.

No, our minds are not that simple. So you cannot even say souls are black if we do not know everything.

Because what is black then cannot suddenly be white. and if all souls are black, then how is one soul accepted into Heaven and the other turned away?

Because God has sent his son to pay the price for our sins.

That is the only way a soul can become White through God because he paid the price of our sins.

And really, that's a simple fact.

But it is a journey!

There is no abrupt change, even when one accepts the Messiah they can still sin. So how can they be white?

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:The thread spoke of viewing black and white in terms of morality, and morals are based in right and wrong. Wrong - Black and white - is Right.

Is this a confusing topic or do I need to make it simpler?

Um, yes it can. Jesus Christ clearly cut out most if not nearly all Jewish practices we had (And my peep has never been happier about it). Judaism is The History that lead to Jesus.

Everyone doesn't have good in them. Only the Lord Christ can make someone white and that is what death on the Christ was for. God said our good deeds were like dirty rags. (I am only going metaphysical here because you seem content to hammer it out like this)

But thats the problem with black and white arguments, the argument base itself is flawed.

No, it cannot, because the God of Judaism, and the God of Christianity are basically the same. I can say that because of Messianic Judaism. The Book of Life was even spoke about in the New Testament, was it not? The same one.

People do have good in them, we are not 100% evil, because we can change. We are not condemned to one fate because we are grey. Complex, isn't it?

The argument is not flawed. It's because we disagree.

Jesus Said no man comes to the Father except through me and only those who accepted Christ will be found in the book of life. Which basically nullifies that argument or whatever that was.

Any who sins falls short of the Glory of God.

You don't even know what Messianic Judaism is. Research, then come back to me before you cast it off.

We all fall short, but we are not fully evil. So we are not black. We are not so simple to label like that. Not black because they that would mean to be accepted into heaven, we would need to be white, and only one man has pulled that off.

But, I'm pretty sure there is more than just The Lord and his son in Heaven

Yes I do. But I also believe in Lord Jesus's words a lot more then what the Messianic Jews did. Messianic Judaism believes Jesus is the messiah they waited for (He is) but they continue most Jewish traditions (They don't have to but it's not a bad thing either).

That is why we must BELIEVE in Jesus because he paid for our sins. Jesus paid for our sins because otherwise no man would be able to go to heaven because all men are sinners. Yes, we are all black.

They continue on because you need to remember that these traditions were done before the Messiah was even on Earth. So they continue on to assure that they will not slip up, as you say so.

Not black, It's a transition

in the evil terms

Satan------------------------Humans--------------------------The Lord

We're in between so that we can decide which way to go. We can't be black or white, but we sure can be grey!

I don't care what Messianic Jews do. Personally as long as they have the Jesus is messiah deal down we are fine.

And you didn't say anything about the major part of that post =.=.=

I even made a pretty graph for it! D:

Because I disagree with it ^_^

Humans are not in the Middle. We are saved through God's grace, not through our actions. We are in the black.

And because I disagree, it doesn't matter to me.