Black and white or shades of grey?

Wow...Uh...Go Q?

I think there are shades of gray because someone could do something wrong for the right reasons, or something right for the wrong reasons.

Wrong for right reason: I could let the most evil man in the world live, to some people that is wrong. But I see it right because it's a human soul.

Right for the wrong reason: I could help a little old lady cross the street. But after I could walk around saying, "I deserve this because I helped the elderly cross a road."

Also I believe in shades of gray because something could indeed be half right and half wrong.

two examples, ones metiphorical in a sence and the other is mathematical.

if i were an exucutioner (pardon spelling-) I could kill a man because he is a serial killer, making it right. But it's wrong because it goes against the ten commandments. "Thou shall not kill" or whatever.

And another way is I could have:
5 x 6(4-3)
4 - 3 = 1 ; 5 x 6 = 30
1 x 30 = 31.
I did the figuring right, but I got the overall problem wrong.
makig it half right and half wrong.
I have also recieved half credit on a short answer making it half wrong and half right.

(I know the math figuring and all didnt really do much about life, but it breaks down the way I see it)

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:I disagree.

Do you say that "Lying" to not hurt someone's feelings justified?

Well I do not. I believe a lie is a lie.Yes, we all lie me especially included. But is it still wrong to lie? Yes. I believe it is.

some things are not as simple as a lie

take for example, war

As a soldier, you can purposely take away one's life. Defined, this is murder. But is it black and white?

There are exceptions to the black and white rule

I disagree.

Going to war is not murder. Sure, you may kill. But killing and murder are very seperate.

If I have someone with a gun heading for my brother and I am able to stop him but kill him, did I murder? No! I was protecting my brother

When people go to war they are Protecting their country and homelands and families.

To murder you need to kill someone with hatred, anger, or some other self centered view behind you. That is seperate from war.

The world is black and white. You can try and grey it up as much as you want but that doesn't change the facts.

doesn't change the facts

if I remember, the Bible said murder was the willful taking of one's life, but it can be right at time, and the examples you just listed show the exceptions to a black and white world

If a person were to live in a 3rd world country and never be exposed to Christianity or Judiasm, but lived a virtuous life, would they go to hell?

If a woman were to slap a fly out of anger and kill it, is that murder? Is it bad?

The Bible says "Thou shalt Not murder" (Properly translated) Not "Thou shalt not kill" and if one recalls the Bible old testament was full of God telling the chosen people to genocide and massacre the tribes of the Pagan's that were in God's Holy Land. Why? Because they were killing. Not Murdering. That is why one time when a man plundered it lead to the death of about 30 people.

Now that is one of the age old questions (Not that it matters if they were exposed to Judaism at this point). God says he weighs there life based on their knowledge. I can't answer anymore then that though I have some theories.

Wow. Well I will let you know when the 11th Commandment said "Thou shall not slap flies". Considering flies are not "Lives" they are "Flies" then I don't see why one would care, if they killed it.

Because God bestowed life onto many things and a not even a fly is alive and life is special in all forms, even something as small as a fly. You should know that, being that even though man is dominant on the earth, we shouldn't disregard on the other living things as useless.

There is not always a right choice and a wrong choice. There are gray choices, things with good intentions that from a quick glace seem black. Vice versa as well

Well yes but you agree Sasori that you either made a RIGHT choice or a WRONG one reasons aside for a moment then we both see that there are right or wrong things to do. Yes, reasons matter, but if you do the right thing for the wrong reasons, personally I see that as still doing the wrong thing.

Part of doing the right thing is the reasons that go with it.

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:I disagree.

Do you say that "Lying" to not hurt someone's feelings justified?

Well I do not. I believe a lie is a lie.Yes, we all lie me especially included. But is it still wrong to lie? Yes. I believe it is.

some things are not as simple as a lie

take for example, war

As a soldier, you can purposely take away one's life. Defined, this is murder. But is it black and white?

There are exceptions to the black and white rule

I disagree.

Going to war is not murder. Sure, you may kill. But killing and murder are very seperate.

If I have someone with a gun heading for my brother and I am able to stop him but kill him, did I murder? No! I was protecting my brother

When people go to war they are Protecting their country and homelands and families.

To murder you need to kill someone with hatred, anger, or some other self centered view behind you. That is seperate from war.

The world is black and white. You can try and grey it up as much as you want but that doesn't change the facts.

doesn't change the facts

if I remember, the Bible said murder was the willful taking of one's life, but it can be right at time, and the examples you just listed show the exceptions to a black and white world

If a person were to live in a 3rd world country and never be exposed to Christianity or Judiasm, but lived a virtuous life, would they go to hell?

If a woman were to slap a fly out of anger and kill it, is that murder? Is it bad?

The Bible says "Thou shalt Not murder" (Properly translated) Not "Thou shalt not kill" and if one recalls the Bible old testament was full of God telling the chosen people to genocide and massacre the tribes of the Pagan's that were in God's Holy Land. Why? Because they were killing. Not Murdering. That is why one time when a man plundered it lead to the death of about 30 people.

Now that is one of the age old questions (Not that it matters if they were exposed to Judaism at this point). God says he weighs there life based on their knowledge. I can't answer anymore then that though I have some theories.

Wow. Well I will let you know when the 11th Commandment said "Thou shall not slap flies". Considering flies are not "Lives" they are "Flies" then I don't see why one would care, if they killed it.

Because God bestowed life onto many things and a not even a fly is alive and life is special in all forms, even something as small as a fly. You should know that, being that even though man is dominant on the earth, we shouldn't disregard on the other living things as useless.

There is not always a right choice and a wrong choice. There are gray choices, things with good intentions that from a quick glace seem black. Vice versa as well

Right. Personally I don't feel that flies matter or really have much opinion of animals and their rights to live. Afterall most people would be starving if dogs weren't a part of the dinner plate and yeah eating a dog is ridiculous in America but who are we to judge? And no one in India would be starving if they just ate the dang cows there.

I disagree wholeheartedly. We do the right things and the wrong things all the time this whole "Grey scale" of ours is still a measure of doing the right thing or the wrong thing even when you call it grey.

Well, this is not about colors at all.

I thought Chuy drew a picture and was asking which color to shade it with xDD

Well um, I believe the world is many different colors,
unless you're color blind of course then all is black and white.

...And I will now look like a Q fan boy, I side with him.

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:Also, bringing Titan's question into play: What about you? Would you sentence the woman for using the only means she had to feed her family?

Here's the fact of the matter. I am not the judge. And that is good because I am sinful and quite arrogant. But, the perfect and all knowing judge will let you know. ^_^

Besides. We are all sinners. So if I were to judge her, I'd say she is no more or less perfect then I. However, isn't that why the almighty judge is also the merciful?

Merciful, but she brings into questions whether you could even classify that as black or white. There are always counterexamples and she was one of them. And the thing is, her situation might be happening all over the world! So it's not something that can be ignored.

Banouin wrote:...And I will now look like a Q fan boy, I side with him.

Son, side with him or not, I really don't care. But when you go to a debate. Could you please contribute more than just that?

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:Also, bringing Titan's question into play: What about you? Would you sentence the woman for using the only means she had to feed her family?

Here's the fact of the matter. I am not the judge. And that is good because I am sinful and quite arrogant. But, the perfect and all knowing judge will let you know. ^_^

Besides. We are all sinners. So if I were to judge her, I'd say she is no more or less perfect then I. However, isn't that why the almighty judge is also the merciful?

Merciful, but she brings into questions whether you could even classify that as black or white. There are always counterexamples and she was one of them. And the thing is, her situation might be happening all over the world! So it's not something that can be ignored.

What are you blabbing about? I said "I don't know the answer" I did not say that "There wasn't a right or a wrong". There is.

But we aren't the judges in these things either way. Personally, judge no man lest he be judged. And let he who has no sin cast the first stone. I am not here to decide her actions and I am not going to take an opinion. And when I take opinions of people I know I am doing it from both a sinners perspective and that of little knowledge.

Still, what's your point? There's still a right and wrong don't you think? Do you think because you found one counter example right and wrong no longer exists? Space Shuttles beat gravity but Gravity still exists. In fact your example doesn't disprove right or wrong just that I Cannot judge that they are right or wrong but I am not the judge anyway so what does that matter?

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:I disagree.

Do you say that "Lying" to not hurt someone's feelings justified?

Well I do not. I believe a lie is a lie.Yes, we all lie me especially included. But is it still wrong to lie? Yes. I believe it is.

some things are not as simple as a lie

take for example, war

As a soldier, you can purposely take away one's life. Defined, this is murder. But is it black and white?

There are exceptions to the black and white rule

I disagree.

Going to war is not murder. Sure, you may kill. But killing and murder are very seperate.

If I have someone with a gun heading for my brother and I am able to stop him but kill him, did I murder? No! I was protecting my brother

When people go to war they are Protecting their country and homelands and families.

To murder you need to kill someone with hatred, anger, or some other self centered view behind you. That is seperate from war.

The world is black and white. You can try and grey it up as much as you want but that doesn't change the facts.

doesn't change the facts

if I remember, the Bible said murder was the willful taking of one's life, but it can be right at time, and the examples you just listed show the exceptions to a black and white world

If a person were to live in a 3rd world country and never be exposed to Christianity or Judiasm, but lived a virtuous life, would they go to hell?

If a woman were to slap a fly out of anger and kill it, is that murder? Is it bad?

The Bible says "Thou shalt Not murder" (Properly translated) Not "Thou shalt not kill" and if one recalls the Bible old testament was full of God telling the chosen people to genocide and massacre the tribes of the Pagan's that were in God's Holy Land. Why? Because they were killing. Not Murdering. That is why one time when a man plundered it lead to the death of about 30 people.

Now that is one of the age old questions (Not that it matters if they were exposed to Judaism at this point). God says he weighs there life based on their knowledge. I can't answer anymore then that though I have some theories.

Wow. Well I will let you know when the 11th Commandment said "Thou shall not slap flies". Considering flies are not "Lives" they are "Flies" then I don't see why one would care, if they killed it.

Because God bestowed life onto many things and a not even a fly is alive and life is special in all forms, even something as small as a fly. You should know that, being that even though man is dominant on the earth, we shouldn't disregard on the other living things as useless.

There is not always a right choice and a wrong choice. There are gray choices, things with good intentions that from a quick glace seem black. Vice versa as well

Right. Personally I don't feel that flies matter or really have much opinion of animals and their rights to live. Afterall most people would be starving if dogs weren't a part of the dinner plate and yeah eating a dog is ridiculous in America but who are we to judge? And no one in India would be starving if they just ate the dang cows there.

I disagree wholeheartedly. We do the right things and the wrong things all the time this whole "Grey scale" of ours is still a measure of doing the right thing or the wrong thing even when you call it grey.

No no no. You seem to misinterpret black and white with right thing and wrong thing. They seem alike, but are different.

Black is black, you cannot point to something grey and call it black, nor can you call it white.

Opposites of the color spectrum that need all colors mixed together or none at all.

A right thing can be a light grey, but never can be white
A wrong thing can be a dark grey, but never can be black

Complete opposites, you cannot round together what is right and what is wrong

Q, you can look at the tiny dots of color on the painting and never see what the dots form when together. Or you can look at the whole painting. You could never classify a person as black and white as well.

It's even been shown. In the Jewish Holiday Yom Kippur, it is said that most people are not in the Book of Life, nor in the Book of Death. Because nobody is completely evil except for Satan. Nobody is completely good, except for the Holy One.

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:Also, bringing Titan's question into play: What about you? Would you sentence the woman for using the only means she had to feed her family?

Here's the fact of the matter. I am not the judge. And that is good because I am sinful and quite arrogant. But, the perfect and all knowing judge will let you know. ^_^

Besides. We are all sinners. So if I were to judge her, I'd say she is no more or less perfect then I. However, isn't that why the almighty judge is also the merciful?

Merciful, but she brings into questions whether you could even classify that as black or white. There are always counterexamples and she was one of them. And the thing is, her situation might be happening all over the world! So it's not something that can be ignored.

What are you blabbing about? I said "I don't know the answer" I did not say that "There wasn't a right or a wrong". There is.

But we aren't the judges in these things either way. Personally, judge no man lest he be judged. And let he who has no sin cast the first stone. I am not here to decide her actions and I am not going to take an opinion. And when I take opinions of people I know I am doing it from both a sinners perspective and that of little knowledge.

Still, what's your point? There's still a right and wrong don't you think? Do you think because you found one counter example right and wrong no longer exists? Space Shuttles beat gravity but Gravity still exists. In fact your example doesn't disprove right or wrong just that I Cannot judge that they are right or wrong but I am not the judge anyway so what does that matter?

Then what was the white thing for her to do and what was the black thing?

Personally, I just find her a really interesting example and one I couldn't just pass on giving you. Q, you've completely switched from black and white to right and wrong

Stick to one argument side, please

I am not jewish so that logic really doesn't matter to me.

Personally I agree, no man is perfect, we are all black, and only one lived as white. BUT since we have all sinned we all deserve death and we all are black.

And Racism and this situation are completely seperate.

BUT there is right, there is wrong, grey is nonexistent.

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:Also, bringing Titan's question into play: What about you? Would you sentence the woman for using the only means she had to feed her family?

Here's the fact of the matter. I am not the judge. And that is good because I am sinful and quite arrogant. But, the perfect and all knowing judge will let you know. ^_^

Besides. We are all sinners. So if I were to judge her, I'd say she is no more or less perfect then I. However, isn't that why the almighty judge is also the merciful?

Merciful, but she brings into questions whether you could even classify that as black or white. There are always counterexamples and she was one of them. And the thing is, her situation might be happening all over the world! So it's not something that can be ignored.

What are you blabbing about? I said "I don't know the answer" I did not say that "There wasn't a right or a wrong". There is.

But we aren't the judges in these things either way. Personally, judge no man lest he be judged. And let he who has no sin cast the first stone. I am not here to decide her actions and I am not going to take an opinion. And when I take opinions of people I know I am doing it from both a sinners perspective and that of little knowledge.

Still, what's your point? There's still a right and wrong don't you think? Do you think because you found one counter example right and wrong no longer exists? Space Shuttles beat gravity but Gravity still exists. In fact your example doesn't disprove right or wrong just that I Cannot judge that they are right or wrong but I am not the judge anyway so what does that matter?

Then what was the white thing for her to do and what was the black thing?

Personally, I just find her a really interesting example and one I couldn't just pass on giving you. Q, you've completely switched from black and white to right and wrong

Stick to one argument side, please

We don't know the answer. I am humble enough to admit I don't know everything.

Personally I have seen black and white as black and white as right and wrong as right and wrong this whole time. Please read all my posts please.

quater wrote:I am not jewish so that logic really doesn't matter to me.

Personally I agree, no man is perfect, we are all black, and only one lived as white. BUT since we have all sinned we all deserve death and we all are black.

And Racism and this situation are completely seperate.

BUT there is right, there is wrong, grey is nonexistent.

There is right and there is wrong, but like I said before, right and wrong are not the same as black and white

The logic matters because it is religious proof that nobody is black and nobody is white. Not only that, Christianity was born from Judiasm so it is something that cannot be ignored.

We are not black because everyone has good in them, that is white, and everyone has bad in them, that is black. If there is white in someone, they are never black. But if there is black in them, they are never white. Therefore, they are grey, simple as that.

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:

knssquad wrote:Also, bringing Titan's question into play: What about you? Would you sentence the woman for using the only means she had to feed her family?

Here's the fact of the matter. I am not the judge. And that is good because I am sinful and quite arrogant. But, the perfect and all knowing judge will let you know. ^_^

Besides. We are all sinners. So if I were to judge her, I'd say she is no more or less perfect then I. However, isn't that why the almighty judge is also the merciful?

Merciful, but she brings into questions whether you could even classify that as black or white. There are always counterexamples and she was one of them. And the thing is, her situation might be happening all over the world! So it's not something that can be ignored.

What are you blabbing about? I said "I don't know the answer" I did not say that "There wasn't a right or a wrong". There is.

But we aren't the judges in these things either way. Personally, judge no man lest he be judged. And let he who has no sin cast the first stone. I am not here to decide her actions and I am not going to take an opinion. And when I take opinions of people I know I am doing it from both a sinners perspective and that of little knowledge.

Still, what's your point? There's still a right and wrong don't you think? Do you think because you found one counter example right and wrong no longer exists? Space Shuttles beat gravity but Gravity still exists. In fact your example doesn't disprove right or wrong just that I Cannot judge that they are right or wrong but I am not the judge anyway so what does that matter?

Then what was the white thing for her to do and what was the black thing?

Personally, I just find her a really interesting example and one I couldn't just pass on giving you. Q, you've completely switched from black and white to right and wrong

Stick to one argument side, please

We don't know the answer. I am humble enough to admit I don't know everything.

Personally I have seen black and white as black and white as right and wrong as right and wrong this whole time. Please read all my posts please.

And like I said before, you can't use the two interchangeably! And because we do not know the answer, we can never simply just say black and white, because that would imply that you do know, and since we do not, it is grey.

The thread spoke of viewing black and white in terms of morality, and morals are based in right and wrong. Wrong - Black and white - is Right.

Is this a confusing topic or do I need to make it simpler?

Um, yes it can. Jesus Christ clearly cut out most if not nearly all Jewish practices we had (And my peep has never been happier about it). Judaism is The History that lead to Jesus.

Everyone doesn't have good in them. Only the Lord Christ can make someone white and that is what death on the Christ was for. God said our good deeds were like dirty rags. (I am only going metaphysical here because you seem content to hammer it out like this)

You can use right and wrong interchangeably with White and black it's a matter of choice if you do. Just because I don't know all that is black and white doesn't mean it matters because I Am not the eternal judge on the matter (Kinda less burdensome in a way).

Afterall you no one fully comprehends love even though we all love and fall in love. But we don't fully understand it we can still make it into concepts no? Well it's the same except that right and wrong are more resolute.

quater wrote:The thread spoke of viewing black and white in terms of morality, and morals are based in right and wrong. Wrong - Black and white - is Right.

Is this a confusing topic or do I need to make it simpler?

Um, yes it can. Jesus Christ clearly cut out most if not nearly all Jewish practices we had (And my peep has never been happier about it). Judaism is The History that lead to Jesus.

Everyone doesn't have good in them. Only the Lord Christ can make someone white and that is what death on the Christ was for. God said our good deeds were like dirty rags. (I am only going metaphysical here because you seem content to hammer it out like this)

But thats the problem with black and white arguments, the argument base itself is flawed.

No, it cannot, because the God of Judaism, and the God of Christianity are basically the same. I can say that because of Messianic Judaism. The Book of Life was even spoke about in the New Testament, was it not? The same one.

People do have good in them, we are not 100% evil, because we can change. We are not condemned to one fate because we are grey. Complex, isn't it?

My view on this is this:


There is no gray.

There is no gray when you are robbing a band.

there is no gray when you break the law

there is no gray when you commit suicide.
and there is no gray in deciding to hit someone with your car.

I could go on and on, but hopefully you get my point. Most things in life there is only yes or no. Action or no action.

in any given situation there is always a yes or no and always a action or no action.

some situations like someone asks you to give them all your money. You say no, they kill you. You say yes and give it to them.

the consequences are vastly different in each situation but the questions are always the same.

A gunman doesn't think about whether he will kill someone but he thinks who is he going to kill

quater wrote:You can use right and wrong interchangeably with White and black it's a matter of choice if you do. Just because I don't know all that is black and white doesn't mean it matters because I Am not the eternal judge on the matter (Kinda less burdensome in a way).

Afterall you no one fully comprehends love even though we all love and fall in love. But we don't fully understand it we can still make it into concepts no? Well it's the same except that right and wrong are more resolute.

Then, what you are saying is that we cannot say what is black and what is white. So we have to view it as grey.

Black and white exists, but so does grey, and that is how humans view morals because our minds could not comprehend black and white.

amaterasu wrote:My view on this is this:


There is no gray.

There is no gray when you are robbing a band.

there is no gray when you break the law

there is no gray when you commit suicide.
and there is no gray in deciding to hit someone with your car.

I could go on and on, but hopefully you get my point. Most things in life there is only yes or no. Action or no action.

in any given situation there is always a yes or no and always a action or no action.

some situations like someone asks you to give them all your money. You say no, they kill you. You say yes and give it to them.

the consequences are vastly different in each situation but the questions are always the same.

A gunman doesn't think about whether he will kill someone but he thinks who is he going to kill

But, if you had to choose between killing a stranger and killing your best friend, what is the right choice and what is the wrong choice?

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:The thread spoke of viewing black and white in terms of morality, and morals are based in right and wrong. Wrong - Black and white - is Right.

Is this a confusing topic or do I need to make it simpler?

Um, yes it can. Jesus Christ clearly cut out most if not nearly all Jewish practices we had (And my peep has never been happier about it). Judaism is The History that lead to Jesus.

Everyone doesn't have good in them. Only the Lord Christ can make someone white and that is what death on the Christ was for. God said our good deeds were like dirty rags. (I am only going metaphysical here because you seem content to hammer it out like this)

But thats the problem with black and white arguments, the argument base itself is flawed.

No, it cannot, because the God of Judaism, and the God of Christianity are basically the same. I can say that because of Messianic Judaism. The Book of Life was even spoke about in the New Testament, was it not? The same one.

People do have good in them, we are not 100% evil, because we can change. We are not condemned to one fate because we are grey. Complex, isn't it?

The argument is not flawed. It's because we disagree.

Jesus Said no man comes to the Father except through me and only those who accepted Christ will be found in the book of life. Which basically nullifies that argument or whatever that was.

Any who sins falls short of the Glory of God.

knssquad wrote:

amaterasu wrote:My view on this is this:


There is no gray.

There is no gray when you are robbing a band.

there is no gray when you break the law

there is no gray when you commit suicide.
and there is no gray in deciding to hit someone with your car.

I could go on and on, but hopefully you get my point. Most things in life there is only yes or no. Action or no action.

in any given situation there is always a yes or no and always a action or no action.

some situations like someone asks you to give them all your money. You say no, they kill you. You say yes and give it to them.

the consequences are vastly different in each situation but the questions are always the same.

A gunman doesn't think about whether he will kill someone but he thinks who is he going to kill

But, if you had to choose between killing a stranger and killing your best friend, what is the right choice and what is the wrong choice?

Killing is wrong. End of it.

knssquad wrote:

quater wrote:You can use right and wrong interchangeably with White and black it's a matter of choice if you do. Just because I don't know all that is black and white doesn't mean it matters because I Am not the eternal judge on the matter (Kinda less burdensome in a way).

Afterall you no one fully comprehends love even though we all love and fall in love. But we don't fully understand it we can still make it into concepts no? Well it's the same except that right and wrong are more resolute.

Then, what you are saying is that we cannot say what is black and what is white. So we have to view it as grey.

Black and white exists, but so does grey, and that is how humans view morals because our minds could not comprehend black and white.

That's probably the exact opposite of what I am saying. I am saying we don't know Everything, so we cannot be judges of all situations and know if we did what is right or wrong, but we must strive to do what is right, because it's there.

Our minds are pretty comprehensive of black and white actually.